Gabrielle Martin chats with Julie Tenret of Focus and Sandrine Heyraud of Chaliwaté about their show Dimanche, which will be presented at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival. Dimanche will be presented with our friends at the Cultch on February 6, 7 and 8 at the Vancouver Playhouse, supported by Vancouver Civic Theatres.
Show Notes
Gabrielle, Julie and Sandrine discuss:
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How do you address something with extreme clarity but also appeal to a broad audience?
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How do you tackle the theme of climate change and denial?
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Why is it important to show our vulnerability, fragility and smallness in nature? How do you achieve this?
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What do you mean by the work being “artisanal”?
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How do you mix physical and object theatre?
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How does humour as well as emotional distance fit into the work?
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How would you describe the journey of your two companies coming together? Have your different techniques stayed separate or been blended together?
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Is the storyboarding process typical for you?
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How have your artistic practices evolved since both companies were founded in 2009?
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What can you tell us about your new project?
About Dimanche
The Companies Focus (created by Julie Tenret) and Chaliwaté (consisting of Sandrine Heyraud and Sicaire Durieux) gathered around the collective writing of Dimanche. For a long time, the two companies had been following and appreciating the work of the other. It became apparent that they had a similar approach, a shared taste for unusual, visual, artisanal and poetic forms of theatre. The three artists decided to pool their talents to create a new form of writing combining gestural theatre, object theatre, puppetry, acting and video. This project is a continuation of their respective research. Since 2016, they have worked meticulously to create a unique, visual and poetic language that draws its inspiration from everyday life, the intimate, the “infra-ordinary”, to tap into the universal.
Land Acknowledgement
This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver.
Bettina joined the conversation from Brussels, Belgium.
It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself.
Show Transcript
00:02
Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights an artisanal approach to connect with humanity.
00:17
I'm speaking with Julie Teneré and Sandrine Heroux, two of the lead artists behind Dimanche, which is being presented at the Push Festival February 6th to 8th, 2025. Between dreamlike fiction and stark reality, Dimanche paints a sharp yet tender portrait of humanity caught off guard by devastating natural disasters.
00:37
It depicts the ingenuity and stubbornness of humans as they cling to habits amid ecological collapse, asking how much longer can we ignore the storm at our door. Directed by Julie Teneré, who graduated from INSAS, the company Focus, from Brussels, creates shows combining theater of objects, puppets, actors, and video.
00:57
The scenic language she proposes is essentially visual, metaphorical, poetic, artisanal, and very close to a cinematographic writing. Trained in the gestural arts, Siqueur Duryu and Sandrine Heroux created Chaluaté Company in 2005.
01:15
Based in Brussels, they defend a visual language without words, poetic, physical, and artisanal, mixing gestural theater, object theater, circus, and dance. Here is my conversation with Julie and Sandrine.
01:31
I would like to acknowledge that I'm joining the conversation from the stolen ancestral and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, so the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh. I'm a settler on these lands, and part of my responsibility as a settler is to continue to educate myself on settler colonialism and the indigenous fight for sovereignty.
01:57
It's not just an indigenous fight, but foreign. indigenous sovereignty over these lands. And so I reference it often, the Yellowhead Institute has this really great, many great reports, including the red paper, which looks at how indigenous consent is ignored, coerced, negotiated, or enforced in Canada with regard to land.
02:20
And I'm just gonna share a little excerpt from this red paper. We analyze how the land tenure regime in Canada is structured upon the denial of indigenous jurisdiction through the creation and enforcement of legal fictions.
02:35
This is followed by limited recognition, which includes an evolving notion of the duty to consult and corresponding government and industry responses. So today, while states are encouraged to adopt the principle of free prior informed consent at the international level, in the Canadian context since 2007, when the UN's Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was first presented, There has been state opposition to a fulsome implementation of free prior and informed consent.
03:06
And I just really appreciate the clarity of this document and the other Yellowhead documents and what an incredible educational tool it is for myself and I know for others. Julie and Sandrine, where are you joining this conversation from today?
03:23
From Brussels, in Belgium. Great, thank you. And is that where both your companies have been based since they were founded? Yes, exactly. Even though we studied maybe in other countries, we started working really professionally in Brussels and in Belgium.
03:44
And soon I'm going to ask you about the history of your companies because they were both founded in 2009, so they have a beautiful history. But first I want to speak more specifically about kind of the themes of Dimanche.
03:57
So, Julie, you've described your work as aiming to deal with social issues, starting from the intimate, the infra-ordinary, to reach the universal. And this is clearly successful in Dimanche. You know, the climate catastrophe is a subject that there is surprisingly little theatre about considering the scale of impending change for humanity.
04:20
But you both, the focus and Chaluaté, seem to have done something very rare to create this work that addresses the fate of the path that we are on with extreme clarity while connecting deeply with the audience across a range of emotions.
04:36
So I'm curious what you think makes this work successful. Of course, there is the theme that is climate change, that is what we are all experiencing today. And what we concentrated on was the denial in which we found ourselves and the people surrounding us between the conscience and knowing that.
04:59
there is a quick action to take, an urgency and the difficulty to translate it in our everyday lives, in our everyday actions. And so it was, for example, we had this sentence of Bill Watterson in Calvin Hobbs that was saying, this is not denial, it's just the reality that I accept.
05:29
And so it was, yes, all this, this absurdity between this knowledge that we have now with all the scientific evidence that we are facing really an extreme urgency of action facing climate change and this impossibility sometimes in our everyday lives to translate it in actions.
05:54
So that was the starting point. That gives rise to a very sadistic situation and so that creates humor and tragedy, and in our work we try always to talk about tragedy through the prism of the humor and tenderness.
06:17
And it was also to recall big things with very simple means because the show is actually with a very artisanal, an artisanal way of using accessories, etc. And because it shows our vulnerability and fragility facing nature and our smallness facing nature, so that was something we really also, was also possible by the means we use in the show, the tools we use that are object theater with physical theater and puppetry.
06:58
When you say artisanal, because this is a, you know, the word exists in English obviously, but I don't often hear it used in the context of theater work. For you, does that relate to the objects? When you say, what do you, can you explain a little bit more what you mean by artisanal?
07:15
It's that there's not a lot of machinery or very sophisticated. We think that there is a big part of the emotion. It's to advocate something bigger than us, which a very simply way. Simple means. Simple means, you know, and that gives something very fragile and very, very human, it brings humanity and poetry.
07:49
And for example, in Dimanche, there was also the mix between physical theater and object theater where, for example, the body is the landscape. and sort of a metaphorically saying that we are parts of the nature.
08:03
So there was also this game between the scales that is very rich between the fact that you can zoom in the images and then take a certain distance. Yeah, I'm hearing that the play and the humor is really key.
08:19
I mean, and I feel that was my own experience, you know, in reflecting on a subject that's so heavy, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just is. But also I think there's something, you know, both of your practices are rooted in object theater, visual theater, physical theater.
08:42
And I think with the use of objects, puppets, There's something about the metaphoric language that you both talk about. And I think that there's something there, too, in terms of our ability to, by taking kind of a step back, or playing with perception, or taking it out of from the very literal kind of narrative theatrical context, where we're seeing like, you know, a couple characters going through this particular series of events,
09:20
I think that the fact that we can relate at moments with a polar bear. That's why also it was very important for us, the question of the humor inside this, this piece is because also it brings an emotional distance.
09:34
And it's activates our sense of proportion, proportion. And yeah, and as you were saying, it it lets us see the absurdity of our human condition. But also, yet it, it brings another point of view, another way of looking at things.
09:56
So it was very important for us not to be in a more realistic approach or scientific approach, because I mean, we're not we are first of all, telling a story and trying to, to put all the means to tell that story.
10:11
Yeah, and humor poetry, it's really something that we always search for. In August 2018, your companies came together to present backup of 30 minute performance at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. And then Dimanche is the full length development of that work, which I had the privilege of seeing in Edinburgh in 2023.
10:34
Can you talk about the journey of collaboration between your two companies, and also the distinct signatures from each of your approaches in Dimanche? Like will we see, can you refer to a certain use of form or technique as something that's more focus or chalawate, or is it a true blend of aesthetics and techniques?
10:55
Well, I think we have, we met first in 2015. Because we used to have shows that were often presented in the same festivals or in the same theatres, and so our paths often crossed. And I think we had also a common taste for unusual theatrical forms.
11:26
As we were saying, very artisanal way of treating images without words. That was something also that was common to us, that we weren't, we, let's say we, the absence of words aroused visual creativity for the both companies.
11:48
And so even though we had different skills, Judy came more from object theater and puppetry, and with Siqueir we came more from a physical background of the arts of movement. But the language was very similar.
12:06
Of the shows that we had, there was a similar, as she says, language. And so it was very organic, the way that we met and the way that the creation was started. And there was really a blend of these tools without saying, OK, now is the puppetry moment, now is the object theater moment, or the physical moment.
12:32
It was really first to tell the story, what we wanted to tell, what were the images that the subject aroused for us, and then how we can make them the more. And I think we had a different approach. But finally, it doesn't depend about our tools.
13:00
Yeah, you know, it was just because we are a different person, but we tried to write a story and was very concentrated about that. And so we took like three years to create the show. It's a very long process.
13:12
And the first years, we just was writing on the table. We really tried to realize a storyboard and a story and then re-approve it on the stage. And some things are reveals themselves. Very interesting orders, not a duel, and yeah.
13:39
Then we re-write things. Of course, seeing how it works on stage. But re-write, this show really like a movie. re-imagines like a movie, it's our process. And so everything with object theater by other tools, but with object theater, we can dream absolutely every we want.
14:03
There is no, yes, no limits. There is no limits. And then we try to translate all the time. We try to find the translation on the stage because we don't want to write a movie, but we won't write a piece of theater, but it's always to try to find a tradition with a very artisanal language.
14:31
And so we try to create a new language with an remix on and mixed all these skills, but yeah, but it's very, we, the very... La Richesque, the rich, the important things for us, it's the collective processes.
14:54
So there is absolutely not one person on this side. And finally, we talk so much that it's just impossible to see how we find this idea. You know, we talk and you propose something interesting. I propose something not interesting, but because I think about it and you know what I mean.
15:15
So finally, it's always quite magical, because you don't really know how the ideas are aroused, but it's a lot of confiance, how do you say, trust, no, it's a lot of trust between us three, because I think that was something that was very important in the collective work, because there's not one person that is a stage director.
15:48
We are three, really writing and experiencing on scene, on stage, the ideas. So it's a lot of trust and a lot of... And for a show like Dimanche, we have write a show, and finally, we lived a lot of things we really loved, but it was not...
16:07
Serving the proposed. Yes. And so it's a long process. But it's very interesting and funny, you know. It's a lot of joy, yes. It's first a lot of joy to work together and the first years we write at three, but the second years, and then finally, we have a big team with us.
16:37
And the sound in our process of writing is very important. We write the song because we don't speak, like Sandrine said. And so we write a song because we, uh, it's as dramaturgical as the rest of the, the tools, because it also, uh, brings the situations, the, the, yeah, it really participates with us.
17:03
Uh, so we worked with someone that comes, came from cinema. And so that really specialized all the sounds on stage. So it would really come from the different, uh, spaces. And so that was something really, that was, um, uh, a big work also.
17:23
Was that new to this process or had you done that before work with that sound in that way in previous projects? Yes, a lot, but maybe it was, uh, even more specifically worked in Dimanche. And the process of storyboarding, is that also usual for your process?
17:41
That first you're going to sit down and really map it out visually like that? I think for Julie, yes. For us, with Siqueur, it was not so clear, because it depends on the shows we made. Sometimes it came more from improvisation, even though there was a theme and direction we wanted to take.
18:04
Maybe we worked at first a lot already on trying things. For my presentation and for Dimash, it was very necessary, because we talk about a very complex subject. When you improvise something, there is always something very interesting, and it complicates to choose what we follow and what we leave.
18:31
Because we had write a script and a scenario, it gives us a guide. Yeah, like limits. And so it was possible to improvise everything that gives us a very big freedom. Yeah, I guess my next question is about the evolution of your artistic practices.
18:57
As mentioned, both of your companies were started in 2009. I would love to hear about who you were as artists then compared to now. Also, maybe after this process, I'm curious if Julie, you're integrating more mime work and Santorini, you're integrating more puppets.
19:14
If this Dimash creative process has affected how you work in your future projects. Generally, I would love to hear about the evolution of your creative process, your interests. I think it's complicated to know that, because we are writing together a new show.
19:36
That's three right now. So yes, I feel that we always tried at each show to open on new or collaborations or new tools. So on a recent show, we worked a lot with circus, but on another show, we also worked a lot with object theater.
20:01
So it was also always something that was serving the dramaturgy and the story we wanted to tell to go and pick things that can bring the best image that serves the story. It's true that we had never, for example, done puppetry before, but it was very, yeah, it was very exciting to work on that with Judy and it's for sure the fact that we worked on Dimanche for the new show, there's something maybe more evidence than that is,
20:41
of course, that we experienced before. So, After it's difficult to always know how we change in our languages because there are so many influences, so many things that are also maturity in our time and work that changes, of course, the way that we that we avoid the creations.
21:05
But for Dimanche, it was the first time we worked together, the two companies. And so I think I really imagine a movie through the prism of the object because it's my formation. And finally, it's like in a bit too the usually, usually, there's some habits.
21:28
But when I it's interesting for me to have to have the body on the stage all the time, you know, because it's not evident for me, for example. But I really love it. And that brings a very poetry dimension.
21:50
But it's not evident for me, you know. And so I'm very enthusiastic and exciting to see another language and that brings me a lot. But I can explain more. That's great. Can you talk to us about the new project?
22:11
Oh, it's really the beginning. We're starting, we're just starting from the beginning of September. We started working on this new project. But we tried always a subject society through the prism of poetry.
22:25
And so that will be something like that. And we mix again, again, our different tools. But I say different, but finally, it's a mix of what we say. But the language, finally, will be very, I suppose, different from Dimanche.
22:45
because we we try to create something like a surprise for ourselves too and so we don't we really don't want to do exactly the same show but uh monday you know but we will do our best it's a surprise for us because we you can write a long time and finally at the end we discover our show and so it's oh okay that's it's that's okay wow yeah i think especially when you're working with the body um when you're not working with text i think there's um there's maybe even more space or i guess it depends how you're working with text but i feel like that that process of letting the work reveal itself you know or when you really get the bodies in space or the objects in space i suppose and you really start to understand them it's always a discovery when when the show finally is presented we also discover Yeah,
23:44
what we didn't especially think we were showing, but that reveals itself. Okay, well, we'll have to, we'll be excited to follow. For our sake, we'll hope that it's a faster process, but I really respect a long creative process as well.
23:59
Understand that, you know, that's, I'm sure that's why Dimanche is as strong as it is, because it's had that really rich process. It's been a real pleasure speaking with you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
24:12
Thank you very much. It's an absolute pleasure. When Heather Redford and I saw the work, so Heather is the director of The Cult and we're co-presenting this work in Vancouver. And when we saw the work in Edinburgh, we just got up and looked at each other right away.
24:27
And, you know, it was just this, this, just this total clarity with regard to what an impactful piece this is and how much we would love for our audiences to experience it. So we're just thrilled that it's finally happening.
24:42
Yeah. Thank you. We're thrilled as well. That was Julie Tenre and Sandrine Herro from Focus and Shaliwate Companies. Their work, Dimanche, will be presented with our friends at The Cult during the 20th International Performing Arts Festival on February 6th, 7th, and 8th at the Vancouver Playhouse.
25:05
Push Play is produced by myself, Trisha Knowles, and Ben Charland. Special thanks to Joseph Hirabayashi for the original music composition. New episodes of Push Play are released every Tuesday and Friday, wherever you get your podcasts.
25:18
Coming up on the next Push Play. I think in a broad stroke, there's a lot of appropriation of these different cultures. And we want to go into those difficult and challenging subjects so that we can arrive to a place where we have a deeper understanding of each other.
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